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Post by ianethier on Nov 30, 2011 11:48:59 GMT -5
I can already here the bashing begin...
ST. LOUIS has traded: Ryan Suter Derek Forbort 2013 1st round pick (STL)
to LOS ANGELES in exchange for: Drew Stafford Dylan McIlrath Alec Martinez 2012 3rd round pick (NSH)
Adding to my depth and prospect on Defense, and compensating for the loss of Lucic on the wing.
Not happy to give up Forbort, but you got the spend money to make money.
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Post by Steve (Mtl) on Nov 30, 2011 11:53:19 GMT -5
Accepted Adding Suter really solidifies my D, and an upgrade on prospect D... Good deal both ways methinks, and again a pleasure dealing with STL
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Post by Ian (Pit) on Nov 30, 2011 12:05:01 GMT -5
* Trade under commish review *
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Post by David (NJD) on Nov 30, 2011 12:16:03 GMT -5
Not sure I see the reason for the commish review but thy 1st rounder sticks out to me.
Stafford is good just not getting his time.
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Post by ianethier on Nov 30, 2011 12:22:19 GMT -5
Stafford scored 31 goals in 62 games last year... if he gets his wings back, he scored still score 30 this year, and do so every year.
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Post by Ian (Pit) on Nov 30, 2011 12:38:33 GMT -5
I won't discuss this until the process is over, but i will state that i have no problem with Stafford. I'm aware of his talents. PM sent to St.L and LAK.
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Post by Mike (NSH) on Nov 30, 2011 13:06:24 GMT -5
Lacking in the commentary for me is the rational regarding the 2013 STL 1st rounder going to LA. If we simply use 2012 as an indication of 2013 for STL this is a top 5 pick...
Pros - Lets call Suter (16 pts +11) for Stafford (12 pts -5) even... its not but ok
Prospects - LA got the best D prospect in Forbert, McIlrath projects as a shut down D for NYR and Martinez has a lot of talent in front of him in LA... Ok lets call it even
Picks - Why is STL tossing in a 2013 1st rounder into this deal to even it out?
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Post by ianethier on Nov 30, 2011 14:11:15 GMT -5
Lacking in the commentary for me is the rational regarding the 2013 STL 1st rounder going to LA. If we simply use 2012 as an indication of 2013 for STL this is a top 5 pick... Pros - Lets call Suter (16 pts +11) for Stafford (12 pts -5) even... its not but ok Prospects - LA got the best D prospect in Forbert, McIlrath projects as a shut down D for NYR and Martinez has a lot of talent in front of him in LA... Ok lets call it even Picks - Why is STL tossing in a 2013 1st rounder into this deal to even it out? Well, to answer to Nashville: Suter and Stafford ARE even. Stafford is off to a bad start, but he will be a perinial 30 goal scorer. Tons of PP time. Great to have him, happy to have him. Suter is also great, but in a different way. Forbort for McIlrath - that's even. I don't know if you have done any research before coming here, but Forbort is actually regressing a bit in his development. Yes, he has the raw skill of skating and passing, however, he is strugling with awareness on the ice and decision making. He is also a serial cougher-up of the puck, if you know what I mean. He May be good for assists, but horrible for +/-... thats IF he can improve his play and make the NHL as a regular. And like you said, there is a lot of talent in LA, in front of Forbort as well - and one of those guys in front of him is Alec Martinez, but more on him later. Forbort is stil 2 or 3 years away from even being in the conversation. There is a reason why he slipped from 10 to 15 a the draft. As for McIlrath, yes, he WAS projected as a shut down, but he is so strong physically, and has such a great work ethic that he will be in the NHL sooner than later. On top of that, contrary to Forbort, McIlrath is constinuously improving, improving his skating, shooting and passing. He is the type of tough guy that does not take bad penalties, and has become quite agile and mobile. He will be a +/- beast that can also sakte and make a flashy pass once in a while. Both these players are polar opposites, and are even. Then we are ledt with Alec Martinex and a 2012 3rd round pick, for a 2013 1st round pick.... which in my mind is a good deal for me, and I was happy to do it. Alex Martinez does not have THAT much talent in front on him, since he made the team(and he is ahead of Forbort), and is better than most D's on FA right now. I am not objecting to the commish's review, just replying to NSH. I don't normally justify my trades, as trading is all about timing, perspective and needs, and there is no point to try and convince anyone, but I thought I would in this case.
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Post by Mike (NSH) on Nov 30, 2011 14:52:13 GMT -5
STL,
I'm still missing the rational on the 2013 1st rounder. Alec Martinez?
You bring up a good point on PPP's... Stafford has 2 ppp's to Suter's 8 ppp's. Suter is better here too.
If McIlrath is such a stud why was he not even invited to Canada's upcoming world JR camp?
"Stafford is off to a bad start, but he will be a perinial 30 goal scorer" He has hit 30 goals once and prior to that his highest total was 20 and it dosen't look like he gets there this year either. I hope for your sake you are right.
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Post by ianethier on Nov 30, 2011 17:06:24 GMT -5
well NASHVILLE, your point about Mcilrath not being invited to juniors camp was so irrelevent... what are you saying exactly...because he is not invited he is not such a good prospect?So by your rationale, the following prospects are not good ones:
Defensemen: Martin Lefebvre, Matthew Petgrave, Duncan Siemens, Dillon Simpson and Stuart Percy along with forwards: Patrick Holland, Greg McKegg, Lucas Lessio, Matt Puempel, Brett Ritchie and Michael Sgarbossa.
Interesting. I disagree, but to each his own.
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Post by Mike (NSH) on Nov 30, 2011 17:23:33 GMT -5
Well STL I'm looking forward to seeing this Derek Forbort dud at least play in the tournament.
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Post by WinnipegJetsTodd on Nov 30, 2011 17:44:00 GMT -5
Lacking in the commentary for me is the rational regarding the 2013 STL 1st rounder going to LA. If we simply use 2012 as an indication of 2013 for STL this is a top 5 pick... Pros - Lets call Suter (16 pts +11) for Stafford (12 pts -5) even... its not but ok Prospects - LA got the best D prospect in Forbert, McIlrath projects as a shut down D for NYR and Martinez has a lot of talent in front of him in LA... Ok lets call it even Picks - Why is STL tossing in a 2013 1st rounder into this deal to even it out? This ^
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Post by Steve (Mtl) on Nov 30, 2011 21:01:03 GMT -5
Lacking in the commentary for me is the rational regarding the 2013 STL 1st rounder going to LA. If we simply use 2012 as an indication of 2013 for STL this is a top 5 pick... Pros - Lets call Suter (16 pts +11) for Stafford (12 pts -5) even... its not but ok Prospects - LA got the best D prospect in Forbert, McIlrath projects as a shut down D for NYR and Martinez has a lot of talent in front of him in LA... Ok lets call it even Picks - Why is STL tossing in a 2013 1st rounder into this deal to even it out? Pros - I do call them even, whether 20 games worth of stats say so or not... I mean if we're just going by stats from the beginning of this season, Doughty = 7pts, -3... Seabrook = 7pts, +3... but everyone complained there no? You may not think much of Stafford, but I do and obviously STL does as well, I see a young player who scored just about .5 goals per game last year... Prospects - So you're saying that Forbert = Martinez AND McIlrath?? Gimme a break, I'll assume that was a joke?? Forbert is buried behind a truckload of talented offensive dmen, including Martinez... And therefore, to even it out... Picks - 1st for an early 3rd Edit: By the way, I like how you use the talent in front of Martinez as a knock against him, but fail to apply the same obstacle to a younger player in the same organization...
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Post by pillow on Nov 30, 2011 22:35:45 GMT -5
Woulda loved this deal if the 1st for 3rd swap was a bit closer (saying this because I don't see STL actually having a chance to ice a decent team next year)...but both GMs agreed to it, and kudos to them, both made a heckuva deal. Stafford is gonna outscore Suter pretty much every year until they both retire. This kid is gonna be a stud and LA certainly thought so because he wasn't budging much with Stafford.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2011 22:49:56 GMT -5
This is horrible.
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