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Post by Adam (Tor) on Apr 15, 2014 17:23:25 GMT -5
Im all for hits/blocked shots being one catagory... i have no interest in a toi or average toi, just seems like a boring stat with no entertainment value as compared to hits or blocked shots or PIM if we are adding 2 id say H/BS and PIM
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Post by Chris (DET) on Apr 15, 2014 17:34:29 GMT -5
I dont like ATOI or even TOI.
I am all for blks and hits as seperates to make up for the loss of +/- and the additional stat.
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Post by Dave (Chi) on Apr 15, 2014 17:40:50 GMT -5
With +/- gone, my preference would be to add hits, and then blocks separately, to get 13 categories.
I know Ian has voiced concern with this, and has suggested to merge (hits + blocks). I could live with that, it's still a great category and offers value to players that don't really get much respect under the current categories.
If we then had to add another category to get to 13, I'd suggest either face off % or face offs lost (i.e. lowest face offs lost wins the category). Right now, centers (and wingers) are rewarded for winning face offs regardless of how many they take. So even the the absolutely worst C in the league (i.e. wins 1 out off 1000 face offs) has more value than an identical winger who's never taken a draw. That just seems weird to me (i.e., to reward a player for being absolutely terrible at something). If face off % or face off lost were added, then face offs would be measured not just by how many are won...but also how good you're players are at that particular skill.
A lot of thought went into the goalie categories, making sure to blend both skill and absolute numbers. Why not do the same for centers re: face offs?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 17:41:04 GMT -5
i agree about not liking anything about ice time as a category
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Post by Lester (VGK) on Apr 15, 2014 17:45:26 GMT -5
I am one that will have to ride the wave on this one as adding Hits/blks looks inevitable. But im all for the greater good of the league, if this will help balance the league blueprint.
In regards to adding another category.. THoughts on adding Shootout goals? Still focused more on offensive driven players..
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 18:44:46 GMT -5
Just be aware that by adding hits and blocks you are going to radically change player values in this league. The league Chris and I are in uses hits and blocks. Lucic is ranked 18, Simmonds 19, Hartnell 20, Brouwer 40, Malkin 45, Marleau 47 for example. If you are Ok with this kind of player ranking thats fine but just be aware I think it will completely change the dynamic of this league. You all poo poo ATOI but that stat doesn't upset and drastically change relative player values as much as what you're proposing does. I hear we don't want big changes just to tweak but proceed with caution as alot of whats being discussed I think will radically alter this league. If that's the direction you want to go I'm down for whatever, I am in leagues with many different settings so I can adapt to whatever yall decide. Just trying to be a voice of caution here.
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Post by Mike (NSH) on Apr 15, 2014 18:49:08 GMT -5
If we need to add 2 cats I'm fine with Hits and Blocked Shots as seperate cats.
If we can't decide on this 13th cat I would vote to scrap it and just add Hits in place of the +/- cat for this year and look at how things went next offseason.
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Post by Dave (Chi) on Apr 15, 2014 18:50:11 GMT -5
I think that is why Ian wants to merge hits & blocks into a single category.
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Post by mbravet (Wpg) on Apr 15, 2014 18:53:19 GMT -5
I'm in for hits/blks as separate cats and we have 13. Yes values will change. Regardless what we do if we add cats it will change.
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Post by Mike (NSH) on Apr 15, 2014 18:57:06 GMT -5
Just be aware that by adding hits and blocks you are going to radically change player values in this league. The league Chris and I are in uses hits and blocks. Lucic is ranked 18, Simmonds 19, Hartnell 20, Brouwer 40, Malkin 45, Marleau 47 for example. If you are Ok with this kind of player ranking thats fine but just be aware I think it will completely change the dynamic of this league. You all poo poo ATOI but that stat doesn't upset and drastically change relative player values as much as what you're proposing does. I hear we don't want big changes just to tweak but proceed with caution as alot of whats being discussed I think will radically alter this league. If that's the direction you want to go I'm down for whatever, I am in leagues with many different settings so I can adapt to whatever yall decide. Just trying to be a voice of caution here. Ken is right on this one... My preference is to replace +/- with Hits and not add a 13th cat. This is still a big change in my view.
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Post by Dave (Chi) on Apr 15, 2014 18:59:30 GMT -5
What's wrong with replacing +/- with (hits + blocks)?
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Post by Mike (NSH) on Apr 15, 2014 19:03:17 GMT -5
What's wrong with replacing +/- with (hits + blocks)? Ian wants this plus a 13th cat I believe. It is almost like adding 3 new cats in my view. Too much change.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2014 19:08:29 GMT -5
It almost seems like a feeding frenzy in here, sharks smelling blood in the water. First it was just replace +/-. then it went to cycling. Goalie starts. Max/min games. FA caps. New cats. Contraction. Shit is just flying so fast and imo snap decisions are being made that we need to change this and this and this and this. Like kids opening presents at Xmas its all shiny and new then a few weeks down the road it wears off and noone plays with them anymore. Please please lets proceed with a bit more caution and think things through a bit more. I'd hate to see you lose the actual identity of the league that you all started because all this stuff seems like good ideas.
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Post by Dave (Chi) on Apr 15, 2014 19:08:48 GMT -5
What's wrong with replacing +/- with (hits + blocks)? Ian wants this plus a 13th cat I believe. It is almost like adding 3 new cats in my view. Too much change. What I meant is....what's wrong with replacing +/- with (hits + blocks) and not adding a 13th cat. I don't know how or why one chooses hits over blocks, or vice versa. if they can't be separate categories, i think it makes sense to merge them. and just screw the 13th cat is that is too much change.
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Post by Mike (NSH) on Apr 15, 2014 19:12:13 GMT -5
Ian wants this plus a 13th cat I believe. It is almost like adding 3 new cats in my view. Too much change. What I meant is....what's wrong with replacing +/- with (hits + blocks) and not adding a 13th cat. I don't know how or why one chooses hits over blocks, or vice versa. if they can't be separate categories, i think it makes sense to merge them. and just screw the 13th cat is that is too much change. Dave, I would be fine with this. But to add this and another cat really changes the dynanmic of the league as well as the ratio between the G and Skater stats which I think is quite good right now.
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